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Zzap! 64 Issue 18 out now

Here’s a quick look at my copy of Zzap! 64, Issue 18, that arrived in today’s post.

 

Zzap! 64 Issue 18

Zzap! 64 Issue 18 Cover Image

 

As always the magazine is packed with content spanning 60 pages, including news, game reviews and insightful articles about the past, present and future Commodore 64 scene.

 

A Peek Inside

Here’s a quick look at the contents page giving an overview of what’s inside this issue.

 

Zzap! 64 Issue 18

Contents Page

 

The now familiar digital covermount page gives a preview of what’s on this editions ‘disk’. If only someone would start producing 5.25″ floppies again…

 

Zzap! 64 Issue 18

Digital ‘covermount’ content page.

 

There’s half a dozen goodies waiting to be selected on this months covermount, plus an additional full game hidden away in the Zip file – ‘Elasto Mania 64’ which is a very cool (and tricky) physics based  scrambler bike game. Imagine something along the lines of an 8-bit ‘Trials’ game. Impressive stuff for the C64.

 

Zzap! 64 Issue 18

Issue 18’s Covermount Menu screen

 

Getting hold of a copy of Zzap! 64 Issue 18

This is another great edition of Zzap! 64 and well worth a buy. The magazine is available from Fusion Retro Books priced at £4.99. Make sure you use the code ‘LYONSDENBLOG’ to grab yourself a sweet 15% off the price! This code works for everything you place in your basket too!

Below you can peruse a small gallery of images from the magazine.

 

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You can find other Zzap! 64 related posts here .

Zzap! 64 Issue 17 out now

Zzap! 64 Issue 17

Here’s a quick look at my copy of Zzap! 64, Issue 17, that arrived a few days ago.

 

Zzap! 64 Issue 17

Zzap! 64 Issue 17 Cover Image

 

The magazine is packed with content spanning 60 pages, including news, game reviews and insightful articles about the past, present and future Commodore 64 scene.

 

A Peek Inside

Here’s a quick look at the contents page giving an overview of what’s inside this issue. Spoiler alert – there’s a lot of games getting Sizzler awards in this issue!

 

Zzap! 64 Issue 17

Contents Page

 

Sadly the coverdisk for Zzap! 64 is digital only these days as the supply of ‘new old stock’ 5.25″ disks has run dry (nobody manufactures new ones any more). There’s still a page dedicated to letting you know what you can enjoy when you ‘insert’ the .D64 file into your 1541 Ultimate II+ though (or whatever your 1541 emulator of choice happens to be).

 

Zzap! 64 Issue 17

Digital ‘covermount’ content page.

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Getting hold of a copy of Zzap! 64 Issue 17

This is another great edition of Zzap! 64 and well worth a buy. The magazine is available from Fusion Retro Books priced at £4.99. Make sure you use the code ‘LYONSDENBLOG’ to grab yourself a nifty 15% off the price! This code works for everything you place in your basket too!

I’ll leave you with a small gallery of images from the magazine.

 

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You can find other Zzap! 64 related posts here .

Zzap! 64 Issue 16 out now

Zzap! 64 Issue 16

Here’s a quick look at my copy of Zzap! 64, Issue 16, that arrived in the post today.

 

Zzap! 64 Issue 16

Zzap! 64 Issue 16 Cover Image

 

The magazine is packed with content spanning 60 pages, including news, game reviews and insightful articles about the past, present and future Commodore 64 scene.

 

A Peek Inside

Here’s a quick look at the contents page giving an overview of what’s inside this issue.

 

Zzap! 64 Issue 16 Contents Page

Contents Page

 

Sadly the coverdisk for Zzap! 64 is digital only these days as the supply of ‘new old stock’ 5.25″ disks has run dry (nobody manufactures new ones any more). There’s still a page dedicated to letting you know what you can enjoy when you ‘insert’ the .D64 file into your 1541 Ultimate II+ though (or whatever your 1541 emulator of choice happens to be).

 

Zzap! 64 Issue 16 Coverdisc Page

Digital ‘covermount’ content page.

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Getting hold of a copy of Zzap! 64 Issue 16

This is another great edition of Zzap! 64 and well worth a buy. The magazine is available from Fusion Retro Books priced at £4.99. Make sure you use the code ‘LYONSDENBLOG’ to grab yourself a nifty 15% off the price! This code works for everything you place in your basket too!

I’ll leave you with a small gallery of images from the magazine.

 

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You can find other Zzap! 64 related posts here .

Zzap! 64 Issue 15 out now

Zzap! 64 Issue 15

Wouldn’t you just know it, like buses, you wait months for the next editions of your favourite retro gaming magazines to arrive and then they all come at once! Yep today my postie delivered Zzap! 64 to join yesterdays Zzap! Amiga and Freeze 64 from the day before! This is issue 15 of Zzap! 64 and features possibly one of the most iconic and memorable bits of cover artwork the original run of the magazine ever used.

 

Zzap! 64 Issue 15

Yummy.

 

The magazine is packed with content spanning its 60 pages, with news and game reviews, including more than one title that gets the coveted ‘sizzler’ award!

 

A Peek Inside

Here’s a quick look at the contents page giving an overview of what’s inside this issue.

 

Zzap! 64 Issue 15

Zzap! 64 issue 15 Contents page.

 

Sadly the coverdisk for Zzap! 64 is digital only these days as the supply of ‘new old stock’ 5.25″ disks has run dry (nobody manufactures new ones any more) . There’s still a page dedicated to letting you know what you can enjoy when you ‘insert’ the .D64 file into your 1541 Ultimate II+ though (or whatever your 1541 emulator of choice happens to be).

 

Zzap! 64 Issue 15

Digital ‘covermount’ content page.

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Getting hold of a copy of Zzap! 64 Issue 15

This is another great edition of Zzap! 64 and well worth a buy. The magazine is available from Fusion Retro Books priced at £4.99. Make sure you use the code ‘LYONSDENBLOG’ to grab yourself a nifty 15% off the price! This code works for everything you place in your basket too!

I’ll leave you with a small gallery of images from the magazine.

 

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Zzap! 64 Issue 8

Zzap! 64 Issue 15

It’s been quite some time since I last shared a look at the latest Zzap! 64 magazine and coverdisk so having just received Issue 8 I thought I’d rectify that.

 

Zzap! 64 issue 8

Zzap! 64 Issue 8 with accompanying Disk.

 

The magazine itself is another cracking edition with plenty of content to get stuck into. Spanning 60 pages there was lots to read about, including 8 new C64 game reviews, retro reviews, news and articles.

The editorial really stuck a chord with me on this occasion as it was all about the mighty ‘Mega65′ computer. I finally took the plunge and pre-ordered one of the second batch of these myself a while back and can’t wait to get my hands on it so I really hope the idea of a regular Mega65 section comes to pass.

 

Zzap! 64 issue 8

Zzap! 64 issue 8 Contents page.

 

As always the coverdisk is a visual treat in itself before it ever goes near a 1541! Featuring some great ‘space-y’ artwork across both the disk jacket and label. I’ve probably said this before but I wish this had been the standard of disks back in the day – but I suppose full colour printing was prohibitively expensive back then.

 

Zzap! 64 issue 8

Zzap! 64 issue 8 Cover Disk.

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A huge part of the enjoyment of getting a new coverdisk for me is going in blind and discovering what’s on them. Flipping the disk over gave the game away a little as the contents were listed on the back of the jacket. Still, it will prove handy in the future when I’m trying to locate a specific game/demo.

 

Zzap! 64 issue 8

Zzap! 64 issue 8 Cover Disk – back of disk jacket.

 

Coverdisk Contents

Upon loading up the disk I was greeted with a cool title screen listing the contents of the disk and a nice piece of SID music. Issue 8’s coverdisk features three full games and two demos spread across both sides. When selecting an option from the menu it tells you which side of the disk needs to be inserted before asking you to press the space bar to load it.

Option six brings up instructions for each game accompanied by some jolly decent Last Ninja music.

 

Zzap! 64 issue 8

Cover Disk Title Screen.

 

The Games and Demos on Disk #08

 

Ball & Chain

 

This is a fun little side-scrolling, endless runner style game where you guide your character, a rubber ball, around obstacles collecting coins and defeating baddies along the way.  The ball and chain you are shackled to can be used as a weapon once you get the hang of swinging it around. The game starts off pretty easy but soon starts to get harder and faster until you inevitably go splat.

 

Ball and Chain

Ball and Chain

 

Tenebra Extended

Tenebra is a really unique puzzle game where you have to guide your character through mazes of increasing complexity to reach the exit. The neat mechanic here though is that you can only move around lit areas and most of the levels are in darkness. You can pick up torches to light the way but there will be entrances that can only be crossed when your hands are free (forcing you to drop the torch) and so on. The game also features a neat password system so you can continue your progress right where you left off. All in all a very enjoyable and relaxing little game.

 

Tenebra

Tenebra

 

Cruiser-X 79 Demo

The is a demo of an upcoming vertical scrolling shoot-em-up. Shoot stuff whilst trying to avoid getting hit yourself and picking up power-ups along the way. Decent title music and functional in-game music and SFX,

 

Cruiser-X 79

Cruiser-X 79

 

Stoker Demo v2

This is a demo of a very interesting looking platform game featuring a cute looking dragon as the main character. The main appeal of this game is the huge playable dragon character called ‘Stoker’. He’s much larger than the sort of characters we’re used to on the C64 and really well drawn and animated too. Looking forward to seeing this when it is finished.

 

Stoker

Stoker

 

Rowman

In Rowman you control a little guy in a boat who must escape from a labyrinthine cave system collecting coins and treasure along the way. You have the ability to raise (but not lower) the level of the water inside the caves which you need to use carefully to both collect coins and reach each cave’s exit. The best part of this game for me though was it’s paddle support which is pretty rare in C64 games, new or old.

It really comes into its’ own with a set of paddles attached although it is very sensitive and I found my Hedaka Paddles worked far better than my cheap Atari  ones. If you have access to a decent set of paddles this is the best way to play the game. Be warned it can get get quite frustrating! Falling rocks can be almost impossible to avoid if you’re in the wrong place at the wrong time…

 

Rowman

Rowman

 

Getting hold of a copy of Zzap! 64 Issue 8

This is another great edition of Zzap! 64 and well worth a buy, as is the coverdisk if you are a fan of physical media. The magazine is available from Fusion Retro Books and is priced at £3.99. Make sure you use the code ‘LYONSDENBLOG’ to grab yourself a nifty 15% off the price! This code works for everything you place in your basket too!

Here’s a small gallery of images from the magazine.

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Zzap! 64 Issue 3

Zzap! 64 Issue 3

Zzap! 64 Issue 3 arrived in the post last week sporting a very unique addition – an actual physical cover disk! I do remember later editions of Zzap! having cover mounted cassette tapes but this is the first time (to my knowledge) that it’s ever come with a floppy disk!

 

Zzap! 64 Issue 3

Zzap! 64 Issue 3 with Disk.

 

The magazine itself is another cracking edition with plenty of game reviews and all my favourite sections featured. A text adventure was even awarded a Zzap! Sizzler –  it’s one I’ve not played and it’s free to download – how great is that!

Being a huge Synthwave (and LukHash) fan I found Chris Simpsons ‘We are Stardust’ interview with him about his latest album especially interesting.

 

Zzap! 64 Issue 3

Zzap! 64 issue 3 Contents page.

 

The cover disk itself is beautifully presented in a full colour professionally printed jacket with matching disk label. There’s an extra notch cut into the disk too which means it’s double sided so extra goodies!

 

Zzap! 64 issue 3

Zzap! 64 issue 3 Cover Disk.

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I was really excited to see what was on the disk and was not disappointed. Kudos to the person who created the disk too – it worked perfectly even though my physical 1541-II drive is configured as device 9. Nice!

 

Zzap! 64 issue 3

Zzap! 64 issue 3 Cover Disk – back of disk jacket.

 

Side One Contents

 

Directory listing for side 1.

 

A quick ‘LOAD”$”,9 revealed that this side contained a Ghost Bunny game and also the up and coming Empire Strikes back game. Sadly the latter is just a demo but it’ll be here soon hopefully!

 

The Ghost Bunny Title Screen.

 

Ghost Bunny is a flip screen game featuring a cute rabbit who you manoeuvre around ‘flappy bird’ style and it utilises the C64’s hi-res graphics mode.

 

Ghost Bunny Game.

 

The Empire Strikes Back demo is a Zzap! 64 exclusive and starts with a really cool title screen complete with the Imperial March music playing.

 

The Empire Strikes Back Title Screen.

 

Launching the demo takes you straight to a confrontation with a bunch of AT-AT’s where I subsequently died. A lot. Can’t wait for the finished game though!

 

The Empire Strikes Back Game Demo.

 

Side Two Contents

This time loading up the directory listing revealed a single game called ‘Torreoscura’.

 

Directory listing for side 2.

 

This is a full blown text adventure game which I was delighted to find. I enjoy shoot’em-ups and platform games but I also appreciate something more chilled and cerebral. I must admit I have a real soft spot for Text Adventures (as my growing Infocom collection will attest to).

 

Torreoscura Adventure Game.

 

Getting hold of a copy of Zzap! 64 Issue 3

If you are a C64 gamer then you owe it to yourself to pick up a copy of Zzap! 64 Issue 3. The magazine is available from Fusion Retro Books and is priced at £3.99. Make sure you use the code ‘LYONSDENBLOG’ to grab yourself a nifty 15% off the price! This code works for everything you place in your basket too!

Here’s a small gallery of images from the magazine.

 

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Zzap! 64 Issue 2

It’s been a long 3 months since the first issue of Zzap! 64 magazine launched but my copy of issue 2 is finally here. In my ideal ‘alternate reality’ world, Zzap! 64 would be published every month but there has to be sufficient new games out there to actually review. Sadly the 80’s are long gone and though there are lots of games now being made, they’re nowhere near as prolific as they were during Zzap’s original publishing run. Three months seems to be the magic number then, allowing time for enough new games to emerge from bedroom coders around the globe to fill a magazine.

 

Zzap! 64 issue 2

Zzap! 64 Front Cover.

 

Even though the C64’s halcyon days are long gone, Zzap! 64 issue 2 still manages to feature an impressive ten brand new game reviews. One of them even receives the coveted ‘sizzler’ award. I think that’s a staggering achievement for the C64 scene and just goes to show there’s still plenty of life left in the old girl!

The page count has remained the same as before, as has the quality and use of full colour throughout. Zzap! 64 regulars like the White Wizard, Rrap and Scorelord all make an appearance. Speaking of Scorelord, one of these days I must try and get at least one of my puny high scores featured on his page!

 

Zzap! 64 issue 2

Zzap! 64 issue 2 Contents page.

 

This issue was a cracking read from cover to cover, just like the first one. The reviews were bang up to date, even covering the likes of Nixy the Glade Sprite which has literally only just released. I also really appreciate how they give honest reviews with differing viewpoints. The C64 scene is so active now that I find a more critical approach really helpful in deciding on my next purchase(s).

 

Getting hold of a copy of Zzap! 64 Issue 2

Needless to say if you are a C64 gamer then you owe it to yourself to pick up a copy of Zzap! 64 magazine. It’s available from Fusion Retro Books and is priced at £3.99. Make sure you use the code ‘LYONSDENBLOG’ to grab yourself a nifty 15% off the price! This code works for everything you place in your basket too!

Here’s a small gallery of images from the magazine.

 

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A look at the new Zzap! 64 2021 Annual

Picked up a copy of the latest Zzap 64 2021 Annual last week so thought I share a little look at what’s inside. Let’s start with the awesome front cover artwork by Oliver Frey, the exact same artist from the original Zzap! 64 magazines of the 80’s.

 

Zzap 64 2021 Annual

Front cover of the 2021 Zzap! 64 Annual.

 

Flipping over to the back cover we find a very interesting advert that appears to herald the return of MicroProse simulation games. MicroProse was a big player in the Commodore market (especially on the Amiga) and produced some of my favourite C64 games such as Silent Service, Gunship and Pirates!

Sadly, but not at all surprising, these new games will be coming to Windows PC’s and not the C64 or Amiga. Even so I’m still looking forward to seeing what MicroProse produces. To be honest that’s probably what they are banking on too otherwise why else would they pay for such a prominent advert in a book about 40 year old computers!

 

Zzap 64 2021 Annual

Interesting advert on the back!

 

Below is a little peek at the contents page giving you an idea of exactly what’s inside the annual.

 

Zzap 64 2021 Annual

Zzap! 64 2020 Annual Contents Page

 

A few of the many contributors this year include Andrew Braybrook, Stuart Collier, Perifratic and Trevor Storey.

 

Zzap 64 2021 Annual

Zzap! 64 2020 Annual Contents Page

 

Most of the Zzap! 64 magazine regular features like Zzap! Rrap and the White Wizard can be found within the annual and are given plenty of space to shine. There are also dozens and dozens of game reviews covering pretty much every new game that has been released over the last 12 months for the C64.

 

Zzap 64 2021 Annual

Another example of the amazing Artwork of Oliver Frey.

 

The hardback A4 annual has 120 full colour pages all packed with interesting articles, reviews and artwork.

Here’s a tiny selection of random pages from the annual to give you an idea of what it contains.

 

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Rounding off

There’s certainly enough content in this annual to keep any C64 fan quiet for a very long time. I reckon it makes a superb collectors item; chronicling the last twelve months of the C64 scene. I’ve bought every one of this new run of annuals since it started back in 2019 and I sincerely hope they continue being produced for a long time to come too.

The Zzap 64 2021 Annual is available directly from the Fusion Retro Books website for £15. You can save 15% by using the code ‘LYONSDENBLOG’ at the checkout making it even more of a bargain!

Zzap! 64 Magazine is Back!

Zzap! 64

Well this is something I would never have envisaged happening a couple of years ago… the return of a printed Zzap! 64 magazine! This is an A5 sized publication produced by the same guys who make Fusion magazine, Fusion Retro Books. It’s going to be published on a quarterly basis rather than monthly. This makes a lot of sense and should ensure there’s plenty of new gaming content to fill each issue.

 

Zzap! 64 Issue 1

Zzap! 64 Issue 1

 

I received issue one a few days ago so I’ve had a chance to read it in its entirety now. I also opted to get the very snazzy binder to store all my future issues in. The magazine has been printed on a high quality silk paper and runs to an impressive 58 pages, all in glorious full colour (back in the day much of the magazine was printed in black and white).

 

Zzap! 64

Zzap! 64 Binder

 

Zzap! 64 magazine is packed with reviews of the very latest C64 games to hit the scene. A testament to just how popular the C64 continues to be, despite its advancing age! Speaking of reviews, they are just as good as I remember, presented in that familiar ZZap! style with a main review accompanied by comments from the other writers.

 

Zzap! 64

Zzap! 64 game scoring.

 

Games are scored on Presentation, Graphics, Sound, Hookability and Lastability and given an overall aggregate percentage score, very similar to how they used to be reviewed back in the day.

 

Zzap! 64

Two thumbs up – must be good!

 

Still present and correct are the little B&W portraits of the reviewers in various pensive poses giving you instant visual feedback about what they think of each game. Further reassurance that this is still the Zzap! 64 I know and love – just shrunk down to A5 size.

 

Zzap! 64

The White Wizard adventure and RPG section.

 

As a big Adventure game fan I was thrilled to see the reappearance of the White Wizard. This section of the mag features reviews of some of the current C64 Adventure and RPG games along with news of up and coming ones to look forward to.

 

Zzap! 64

Soul Force gets the coveted Zzap! Sizzler award.

 

As well as the many reviews there are some previews of upcoming games such as the Empire Strikes Back and a look back at some of the more notable games of the past.

 

Zzap! 64

Article about the upcoming Empire Strikes Back game.

 

There’s a few trips down memory lane and insights into events which happened during the magazines heyday too which I found both engaging and entertaining.

Zzap! Rrap makes a welcome return, presented by the totally real and definitely not imaginary Lloyd Mangram, complete with little cartoons of him adorning the borders of the pages.

 

Zzap! 64

Lloyd is back!

 

All in all this is a fantastic return to the C64 scene for the magazine and I thoroughly enjoyed reading it from cover to cover. Along the way I had a good few chuckles, some trips down memory lane and discovered some new games that I want to add to my collection.

This is a magazine that every C64 fan should read and the next issue just can’t come soon enough for me.

 

Zzap! 64

Zzap! 64 Contents page.

 

Zzap! 64 magazine is available from Fusion Retro Books and is priced at £3.99. The optional binder is £15 and can hold 12 issues or 3 years worth of magazines. Make sure you use the code ‘LYONSDENBLOG’ to grab yourself a nifty 15% off the price!

 

 

Zzap! 64

Issue one stored safely in the binder.

 

 

A look at the new Zzap! 64 2020 Annual

Zzap! 64 2020 Annual

Who’d have thought back in the 80’s that in the far off future of 2020 we’d be getting a new Zzap! 64 annual for Christmas? But that’s exactly what’s happening here as I’ve just received my brand new Zzap 64 2020 Annual through the post following another successful Kickstarter campaign.

 

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This time around (they released a Zzap! 64 annual last year too) there were plenty of stretch goals that has resulted in a lot of extra goodies to enjoy besides just the annual.

 

Zzap 64 2020 Annual

Zzap 64 2020 Annual Goodies

 

Along with the Annual, for £22 I also received an A3 Tir Na Nog map/poster, an A5 50 page Fusion 64 magazine & collectors card, a Zzap! 64 keyring plus a Zzap! 64 2020 calendar. Didn’t he do well as Bruce Forsyth would have said.

 

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Below is a little peek at the contents page so you can get an idea of exactly what’s inside the annual this year.

 

Zzap! 64 2020 Annual

Zzap! 64 2020 Annual Contents Page

 

As you can see it covers a broad range of C64 topics from past to present including Perifractics ‘Brixty-Four’ off his youtube channel and none other than Vinny Mainolfi creator of the extremely awesome Freeze 64 magazine.

 

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If you’d like to get hold of your own copy (and if you like the C64 then you really should) you can buy the annual directly from the Fusion Retro Books website for £15. Please bear in mind that you won’t get all the extras described above as these were only for those who backed the Kickstarter campaign.

Freeze 64 Issue 23

Freeze64 Issue 23

The latest Freeze64 Issue 23 dropped through my letterbox yesterday. This one features a photo of the late Ben Daglish on the cover rather than the pixel game art that I’ve become so accustomed to. In case you are not aware he was a legend in the C64 music scene and composed some amazing music for many great games including The Last Ninja.

As always there’s plenty to read inside including my personal favourite, a ‘Talkies’ article looking at games that featured speech. I always used to love games with speech – it was just so cool to hear your 64 talk, no matter how scratchy or poor quality it may have been. The fact that they were able to do this with just a few kilobytes of memory still amazes me to this day!

Most of the regular features make a welcome return including Zzapback and a look at new and upcoming games in the Commodore 64 scene.

This fanzine/magazine continues to go from strength to strength and really deserves your support. If you would like to get hold of your very own copy of Freeze64 Issue 23 then take a look here.

 

Zzap 64 Annual 2019

Zzap! 64 Annual 2019

How cool is this, just received the brand new Zzap! 64 Annual 2019 through the post! This really takes me back to my childhood when every Christmas I would get at least one annual in my stocking. I used to love receiving these as they were always crammed with content that I could while away the hours reading in my bedroom. This is no exception, in fact it may be the most jam-packed annual I’ve ever had with nearly 130 pages bursting at the seams with fascinating 64 related articles, reviews and information.

 

Zzap! 64 Annual 2019

Oliver Frey artwork on the cover

 

I backed this project on Kickstarter earlier this year and am so very glad I did. It’s probably one of the quickest (to finish) campaigns I’ve ever backed with the whole thing taking around 6 months from backing to receiving the goods. The cover had been kept under wraps so that it would be a surprise and features original artwork by Oliver Frey. Oliver’s work seems to be popping up all over the 64 scene of late, but needless to say it’s another quality illustration. There’s also a 2019 calendar included that’s packed with more of Oliver’s handywork and I can’t wait to display that on my wall come January.

 

Zzap! 64 Annual 2019

Contents page looks like it’s been lifted straight from an 1980’s copy of Zzap! 64

 

The art style and layout is instantly familiar. I’m delighted to see they’ve revived the little caricatures of the reviewers although they have ‘aged’ them to reflect the fact that these guys are now some 30 odd years older! But then aren’t we all…?

 

Zzap! 64 Annual 2019

Example of some the content

 

It doesn’t just cover stuff from the past though. There are plenty of articles and reviews about the current the Commodore 64 scene including an in depth look at The C64 Mini that released earlier this year. All in all it’s a fantastic read and one of the best projects I’ve backed on Kickstarter so far. If they decide to make another annual next year (which they are already talking about) then I’m all in.

 

Zzap! 64 Annual 2019

The C64 Mini gets an in-depth looking at!

 

Now that the  Kickstarter is over it looks like you can buy the annual directly from the Fusion Retro Books website for £15 although how many extra copies they made over and above the Kickstarter ones I don’t know.